3stupidfish
Please don’t debate me; I’m here by accident!Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,638
My Mood: Well, the good, the bad, and the ugly. The good – I felt instinctually yesterday that the baby needed to be born, so consented to go to the induction today if I didn’t have him last night. While I was working all that out, I went back in to labor – this time hard. I was indeed walking around at 8 or 9 cm yesterday. I labored fairly easily to get rid of the anterior lip that was all that was left of my cervix. A very fast transistion with the shakes – then I was pushing. OK, pushing out little babies is a blast. Pushing out big babies is NOT – ouch! I tried my birth stool – forget it. Got in the tiny little apartment tub and birthed him in the water. I felt alot of urgency about getting him out and had to make the choice of protecting front or back, so I picked front. Have a small tear in the back, but don’t need stitches. A big boy for me – 8 lbs 5 oz, 21 1/4 inches long – not interested in ever birthing anything bigger than that again!!! So transition and pushing painful this time, but the rest easy.OK, the bad – he was covered with mec stained vernix and did not breath or try. I DID end up calling the midwife, and she arrived as I was crowning. It was a good thing we had her. I’m very glad I trusted my instincts when we arrived here and hired her even though I didn’t want a midwife. EMTs had to come and take him to the hospital where he is on O2. Afterwards I had some bleeding trouble and I lost quite a bit of blood – we tried wombstring and it didn’t work – we think the Shepherd’s Purse caused me to clot and the big clots prevented my uterus from clamping down at the bottom. She gave me pit – got a little scary then cause I’m phobic of needles and started to pass out – EMTs came again to make sure I was going to be ok, but I held it together. I’m pretty weak now.The ugly – there is no NICU in our town and they are sending him away. I haven’t held him since he was born (11/19, 12:40am), and I’m not going to get to see him before the transport and I’m probably not going to be able to follow him for at least a couple days until I can get some strength back. We’re still working out the details. That’s another thing – I really feel that instinctually I felt the need to disconnect from him – hence all the weird talk I did about death, etc – because I needed to be able to let go of control in order to get our family through this. It SUCKS – we so just wanted to have our baby at home post partum, and here with #3 we still cannot have that. But I feel good that we did everything we could to give him a good safe birth – and I think he had the best he could have got. I think his cord not being cut prematurely was probably a huge asset. They said he did not appear to have signs of post maturity. They talk about mec aspiration, but it doesn’t make any sense, cause he never breathed after birth. His X-rays and tests look good. So I’m still wondering why he had fluid in his lungs and what went wrong. Maybe it was just one of those fluke things.

I thought girl all along, and he’s a boy. He looks like a “Joseph” which means “God will add”. I wish I didn’t have to share all this yucky stuff, but it was a good birth, and I feel so thankful that my husband was able to stand by me and listen to my instincts.

Those same instincts that told her she was having a girl–yay!

What’s telling about this account is that she calls it a “good birth.” Baby wasn’t breathing, EMTs had to come and work on baby, baby now on way to NICU–but from her point of view it was a “good, safe birth.” I’m not sure if the baby would agree from his lonely NICU bed. Mom can’t understand why baby had fluid in his lungs and “what went wrong.” She doesn’t believe them when they tell her he inhaled meconium, because what is medical advice compared with those Womyn instincts?

Fortunately, all is well, because mom was able to “disconnect” from the baby and is safely at home posting her wonderful “birth story” to all who will listen. Huzzah! Sadly, on that board this would be considered a decent outcome, and will probably encourage even more women to birth the batshit crazy way.

There was a time when I read the magazine Mothering. They seemed to have some good, progressive ideas about things like (non) circumcision, green living, etc. Then, when I realized I didn’t really want recipes for homemade vegan baby food, or instructions for cutting and sewing washable rags to wipe my pee with, and when they started promoting the viewpoint that HIV doesn’t really cause AIDS and that HIV-positive children shouldn’t be treated, except maybe with a little tincture of hemp, I lost interest.

But, as I have discovered (well me and an entire board full of women, actually,) the magazine is like Sanity Central when you compare it with the forums. On any given day you may find someone 1) trying to sell homemade crafts to other “mamas” because her husband is a lazy ass but she refuses to join the “mainstream” and work outside the home, 2) advice on the taxonomy of fairies and sprites and how to figure out which ones your daughter is talking to in the backyard, 3) how to “homeschool” your children by letting them basically wander around the house and yard, (maybe the sprites have a curriculum?) and 4) how to have your baby at home, without any sort of trained birth attendant. Except maybe your small children!

Yes, you read that correctly. Apparently there’s a “movement” of some sort now, which has its own forum at Mothering.com, that promotes delivering your own babies. Well maybe your husband can participate too, but not if he has any sort of formal medical training! Because that would ruin the birth experience! Doctors, nurses, and apparently even midwives are “predators” out to give you PTSD by Pitocin!

Now, I would usually be making the argument that birth has, in fact, become too medicalized—largely through fear of liability. My first delivery was of that variety—My water broke, they made me lie in bed by telling me that if I moved around the baby’s cord would prolapse, then when I predictably did not progress in that position, they started with the pitocin. My second delivery was with two CNMs in a local hospital, and I got to walk around, bounce on a ball, eat, drink, read, pretty much do whatever I felt like, and it was great. So I’m a fan of the midwives.

The UC (unassisted childbirth) people, however, are not fans of midwives, (or “medwives), because they are part of the big Birth Establishment that is out to Ruin Your Birthing Experience. Women have birthed alone since the dawn of time, they say! Your body can do it all by itself! Trust the mystickal birthing womyn power!

For one thing, I would like to know who these masses of ancient women were who preferred to give birth alone. As far as I know, it has always been considered preferable to have a midwife or at least a similarly experienced woman at your side when the birthing went down. Speaking from my own experiences, I was pretty out of it when it came time to push. Pushing, grunting, hollering, and possibly a little pooping were all I could make time for. If something had gone wrong down there, I sure wasn’t up to coping with it. I suspect most women aren’t, no matter how much Chi or Gaia Birthing Force they have coursing through their veins at any given moment.

I’m sure someone will tell me about some woman somewhere who gave birth alone during a snowstorm—look, just because you might possibly be able to pull it off, if all the stars are aligned, doesn’t make it a good thing to plan on.

Another feature of this site is that nobody is allowed to question anyone’s choices—unless they are clearly stupid and dangerous choices, like, say, using child care, or putting your children in public school. But if you are on the Mothering straight and narrow, unschooling, avoiding medical care, and delivering on the living room rug, then none dare challenge you!

I could give you pages and pages of quotes outlining the mothering variety of stupid and dangerous, (one woman wanted to give birth with sharks!)  but let me just give you one woman’s story.  “3bluefish” was apparently due sometime in October, so the baby is already postdates. This is what she has to say when someone asked her about, oh, maybe seeking medical treatment?

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o:p> 3bluefish–No yellowpeony, I do really mean what I say. I am NOT willing to have a c-section to save the baby. And I’m not willing to have an induction at 42/43 weeks, because that raises the risk of fetal distress and pressure to have a c-section – possibly being forced to have one against my will. I know that is hard to understand. But I HAVE 2 very small children who I love dearly and want to see grow up. I won’t risk my life to save this baby’s – and I don’t think that is ultimately selfish.Am I the only person on earth who feels this way? I spoke to my baby awhile back and explained that if she wants to be born alive, she’ll have to come out. I’m not going to force her into the world with medical heroics – induction or c-sectionWhy can’t they see that it is *not* selfish for me to preserve my health and wholeness – mental and physical?   

Poor yellowpeony is attempting to be the voice of reason:

yellowpeony-If nothing is wrong, why are your dh and midwife trying to help you and you are not allowing them? I am tired of reading tragedy threads and I think it is unconscientable (sp?) of us as MDC members to allow others to try to talk a mama into birthing unassisted just because this is the UC forum. There have been too many deaths and tragedies at MDC this year and I am tired of reading about them. I want you to have a healthy, happy baby and if you can do it UC, great. But, if you need help, please allow them to help you so you can have the baby alive! There is no reason to allow nature to take its course if that means losing the baby when there is medical help that can save you both. No reason at all.

To which 3bluefish replies:

The fact is I value *my* life over my baby’s, because I am needed by 2 small children. I can understand if making that judgement call is “horrendous” to some or unacceptable, but it is my call to make – at least it should be.Anyway, sorry, I brought it up – I was very wary about doing so, but felt I needed to talk about it. But what I see here is the reinforcement of cultural values that defines a mother’s role as sacrifical. No need to continue the discussion. 

georgia
Moderator of Gentle Discipline, Birth Stories, Unassisted Childbirth & Racism Workshop
Protecting your roses from savage herbivorous foxes since 2007 Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: with Gemaine and Bret
Posts: 14,352 The Please, please, please Thread——————————————————————————–Has been removed for possible MDC User Agreement violations and Moderator Review. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.Please take a moment to read the Unassisted Childbirth Forum Guidelines to prevent future issues.Excerpt:Quote:
The Unassisted Childbirth (UC) board is a forum of support, respectful requests for information, and sharing of ideas and experiences. To uphold this purpose the board will not host discussions of debate or criticism regarding UC. Disagreements about UC should be set aside out of respect for the diversity and varying interpretations and beliefs that we hold as a community.While we will not restrict discussions only to those who birth without professional attendants, we will be active in discouraging an individual from posting with no sincere interest in exploring UC. Proselytizing against UC will not be permitted. Controversial subjects of discussion related to UC can be found elsewhere on the internet, and we invite you to seek out other venues for that purpose.

Forum Disclaimer here.

Please PM me or Arwyn with any questions. Thanks!

Right. So it’s not that the discussion got heated, or even unpleasant, but the fact that someone tried to inject a small dose of sanity into this woman’s fantasy world, so the whole thread was deleted. In other words, mothering.com is actively promoting unsafe birthing by squelching anyone who tries to advise caution.

As to the woman who is fine with having her baby die, I’d like to know a few things. 1) Pregnancy itself can be dangerous. If you were so fearful of possibly leaving your living children, why would you even get pregnant again? 2) Do you realize that if the baby dies inside you and can’t be delivered vaginally, they will have to cut it out anyway? 3) Do you realize that you could get a fatal infection carrying a dead baby around in your uterus? And you might even die, and then leave your children anyway? 4) What are you going to tell your children? “Oh, your baby brother/sister was bad and didn’t listen to mommy, so mommy had to let him/her die?”  And lastly, you are both ignorant and a selfish monster.

If you think this would be an isolated or unusual exchange at that board, you would be wrong. Actually the only thing unusual was that one of the other mothering.com members actually tried to remonstrate with someone about her insanity.

I encourage you to look for yourself, read some of the other foolishness on that board. (The proliferation of “Oh no! CPS is out to take my children again!” threads is somewhat amusing.) Then, if you feel as I do, contact the owners of Mothering Magazine and ask them what the hell kind of crap they are trying to promote on their boards. Is it really their intention to promote post-date women sitting around the house and avoiding the “medical establishment” while their babies slowly die? And if so, why is that?

Huggs, Mamas!  (barf)

This year we are going to order Boston Market catering and eat it in the family room while we watch the Transformers movie.

The reason for this, ostensibly, is that my older son is having surgery the day before and won’t be up for a big celebration. But let me tell you about my Thanksgiving experiences. As a child, mom cooked and we had the relatives over for Thanksgiving. The racist uncle, the long-suffering grandma who lived with him, and the mentally ill uncle who would glare into his plate, spill gravy on the tablecloth and occasionally mutter darkly about the futility of it all. Then sometimes we were treated to the loud drunk other uncle and his louder, drunker wife.

I’m not trying to say Thanksgivings were traumatic. People mostly just made rude remarks and shot each other seething glances while my mother’s lips got thinner and thinner. If you think this was any fun at all for a child, you would be mistaken.

Fast forward to grown up slackermom: Beloved Sister and her family live in PA. My father is deceased. So it’s me, non-lover of Thanksgiving food, my two kids who take after their mama, and their vegetarian daddy. And my mom who doesn’t particularly care what she eats. We sit at the dining room table, pick at our food and attempt to keep the kids quiet for about 15 minutes, then breathe a sigh of relief when we decide it’s time to get up.

So that got me to thinking. Who decided how we were to celebrate Thanksgiving? It was established as a holiday at a time when sharing a plentiful meal was actually meaningful to people. Now as a nation we are entirely too plentiful in the food department. Why does Thanksgiving have to stay the same? Why do women who work 40+ hours a week and have no desire to see ANY of their extended family anyway gripe and moan about how they have to “cook” on Thanksgiving? Why not just–not?

I declare Thanksgiving a day of takeout and relaxation, and tell the damned relatives from Segotia to spend it at home bothering their own families. If we really want to make a meaningful national holiday, let’s make it a day for joining the family in a brisk run!

Next week, I will rant at length about why we get the day after Thanksgiving off but not the day after Christmas.

 But what I really want to say is that “Motherfucker, I want more iced tea!” would be a great t-shirt. And maybe not a bad advertising slogan for Lipton.

Please, just let me go buy my smoothie. What did I do to you to make you follow me for 2 storefronts asking me if I want a product to make my hair smoother? Are you insulting me? Why am I being insulted just for walking through the mall? 

I hate them. Just wanted to put that out there.